Can Diet Change Inflammation in Just a Few Weeks? With Dr. Amrita Vijay

In this episode of Causes or Cures, Dr. Eeks speaks with Dr. Amrita Vijay, a gut microbiome scientist who studies how diet shapes the microbiome and influences inflammation, mood, and overall health.

Her research tested three different dietary approaches over six weeks: a prebiotic fiber (inulin), omega 3 supplementation, and a synbiotic combining fermented kefir with prebiotic fiber. All three interventions reduced inflammatory markers compared to control, with the synbiotic approach showing broader effects across multiple markers.

We break down what prebiotics, probiotics, and synbiotics actually mean in real life, how inflammation was measured, and how quickly diet can influence inflammation in the body. 

We also discuss the role of the microbiome, and how to think about food-based approaches for tackling inflammation and chronic illnesses. 

About the Guest

Dr. Amrita Vijay is a gut microbiome scientist and researcher specializing in the intersection of diet, the gut microbiome, and health. She has conducted nutritional intervention studies in both India and the UK, exploring how food influences inflammation, mood, and overall well being. Her work focuses on translating microbiome science into practical, evidence based strategies for improving health. She has received the Best Research Award and Best Achievement Award from the University of Nottingham.

(Follow her on Instagram!)

What we cover

• What prebiotics, probiotics, and synbiotics mean in real terms
• Why it's important to reduce inflammation
• Why inflammatory markers are important
• How fiber, omega 3s, and fermented foods affect inflammation
• Why the synbiotic intervention showed broader effects
• How quickly diet can influence inflammation
• The role of the gut microbiome 
• Whether food based interventions may shape the future of inflammation research

Takeaway

Simple dietary interventions including prebiotic fiber, omega 3s, and fermented foods may reduce inflammation, and even short term changes in diet can lead to measurable shifts in the body.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Causes or Cures Podcast, your gateway to understanding health and groundbreaking medical research in a fun and easy to understand way. With Dr. Eats as your host, join us as we sit down with the world's leading doctors and scientists to unravel the mysteries of health. From practical tips on well-being to the latest breakthroughs in medical research, we cover it all. Don't forget to subscribe. Now, let's ignite our curiosity and together dive into today's episode.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of Causes or Cures. I'm Dr. Ekes, your host, and hope you're doing well. Uh and life is treating you good or okay. You're hanging on. That's all we can ask for. Um, inflammation. We hear a lot about inflammation these days. It's linked to everything from chronic disease, cancer, and to how we feel day to day. But what actually changes inflammation in the body? We hear, you know, a lot of hype, but what actually does it? And how quickly can diet make a difference? Today I'm talking with Dr. Amrita Vijay, a gut microbiome researcher who studies how food shapes the microbiome and in turn influences inflammation and overall health. In this episode, we break down one of her studies that tested three dietary supplement interventions, a prebiotic fiber, omega-3s, and the combination of a fermented food, kefer or kefir, however you say it, and it's like potato potato, isn't it? And the prebiotic fiber. So yeah, a fermented food and the prebiotic fiber together to see how they impact inflammatory markers and what that might mean in real life. All right. So let's connect to Dr. Vijay and hear what she has to say. All right, everyone, we are connecting with Dr. Amrita Vijay, and we're going to learn more about this really interesting research on nutrition and inflammation. But first, Amrita, would you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and what you do?

SPEAKER_03 2:23

Sure. Thanks, Erin. Lovely to be here, by the way. I'm uh Dr. Amrita Vijay. I'm uh a research scientist at the University of Nottingham. I'm also the um lead uh research and innovation um scientist at the company Chocolate Goat. So basically, I what I do is I spend a lot of my time conducting some very interesting trials uh based at the University of Nottingham, but I also offer scientific advice to um companies like Chocolate Goat. So um I also did my PhD at King's College London. And ever since I've worked with uh with Professor Tim Specter, Professor Anna Baldis, uh doing my postdoc, um mainly focusing on the gut microbiome. And yeah, here I am. There you are. Now, what is this company? What what do they do? So Chucklin Goat is a uh a gut health company. They mainly manufacture traditionally fermented uh kefir and also manufacture a divorce diverse prebiotic supplement. So they they basically produce manufacture different types of supplements. They the main product is the uh naturally fermented um kafir.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Oh, nice. The kifer keifer. I say keifer. Is that the way to kefir um so have you always been interested in nutrition research and inflammation? Like, were you like, this is what I want to do?

SPEAKER_03 4:03

I've always been interested in nutrition, yes. I've uh I had a degree in food science, and then I went out to do a PhD, which was slightly different but still related to food, so it was mainly mainly to do with food processing. Um sensory fields and all of that. But then after I finished my PhD, um, and I also had an aspect of the oral microbiome whilst I was doing my PhD, but then I slipped into the gut microbiome as soon as I finished my PhD, and I was I was looking for a job really. Um that's the reality of it, yeah. Yeah, I just I just uh sort of slipped into the whole field of of gut health, and yeah, it's not interested, not looking back ever since. It's uh I sort of got into gut health and the field of gut microbiome when it was just starting off. I mean, this was about I'd say about seven years ago. Seems yeah, long time ago. But um, yeah, it was sort of like I mean, it was people people were talking about gut health and gut microbiome, but it was it was very much sort of um the talk of the town and yeah, sort of emerging signs back then now, you know, it's just um it's sort of cascaded into you know this this this huge thing that everyone's been talking about, and obviously the science with bonds.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

It's linked to everything and yeah, and it's massive, and you find something out, and then you're like, oh my god, there's like 10 other things behind this door that we just opened, and yeah, it's it is it's absolutely fascinating. And you know, also uh, you know, when we're thinking about colon health too and like the microbiome, I'm very interested just because you know, the rising rates and the younger people and nobody knows what's going on there. So, all right. So, in this particular study, which I read, could you tell our listeners the research question that you were trying to answer? Like, why were you doing this study?

SPEAKER_03 6:03

So, one of the reasons why I was really interested in doing the study was because there was a lot of science that was coming out on probiotics. So, when I talk about probiotics, I'm specifically talking about sort of single strain probiotic capsules uh that have been tested out in in clinical studies, and also a lot of research on prebiotics. So these are dietary fibers that have beneficial effects on the body, right? And one of my one of my previous studies was actually based on uh a prebiotic isolate, so insulin, for example. So there was there was a lot of research coming out on on these in these areas, uh, but I was I was really interested in the combination of both of them. Because when you think of it, you obviously have your probiotics or your beneficial microbes, but then you also need the fuel that these microbes need to feed off for them to thrive and grow, right? So I was then interested in what if you combine both of them, and uh the the scientific term for that is called a symbiotic. And there were very few, there were very few studies that were coming out looking at the effects of a combination of a pro and a prebiotic and what happens when you take them together, you know what happens, what happens then? So that's how I came up with the idea. And I approached Chaplin Goat because they had some really amazing products. They had uh they've got their diverse prebiotic blend, which has got 18 different dietary fibers in it, and then they've got their traditionally fermented kefir, which contains over 30 different species of of live bacteria in it. So they're they're they're very, very diverse products individually. And what I wanted to look at was not look at isolated strains as you know, at a probiotic capsule, and if you combine that with one single prebiotic fiber, what happens? I wanted to look at, you know, from a food point of view, what's what what effects uh would that have? So, yeah, so that's how the the study came about. Um, I had a chat with them and they were more than happy to uh to be to to collaborate, and then we conducted the the trial at the University of Nottingham and yeah, and that's nice, nice published.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah, which is always fun to see that, right? When it gets published. Um and you also looked at markers for inflammation, right, or inflammatory markers. So can you tell our listeners a little bit about that? You know, in a as simple as you can, you don't have to get into the weeds.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Um so the the the main outcome of the study that I wanted to look at was um the effects it had on systemic inflammation. So systemic inflammation is basically not inflammation that's localized to a specific part in your body, but systemic inflammation are basically um substances or markers that are circulating within your bloodstream. So it's basically inflammation all over all over your body. So I wanted to see the effect uh the symbiotic combination had on markers and specific markers of systemic inflammation. So, you know, I'm sure um some of the listeners might have come across if you go do a blood test and they they you know they they test you for specific markers like CRP or BIOS 6 and TNF alpha, these are sort of standard inflammatory markers that that um that you get tested for if you do have any signs of inflammation within your body. Um so as part of the study, we wanted to see whether the symbiotic would actually have any effects in bringing down levels of inflammation. And interestingly, we actually it was easier for us to conduct this trial of healthy volunteers. So these are volunteers who've got no medical issues. Uh so these are just healthy volunteers, and what we tested was obviously we did their baseline bloods, where we have a baseline profile of the inflammatory markers, and then we tested them after six weeks. So the duration of the intervention was actually six weeks, where people were asked to take this symbiotic combination for six weeks and come back, where they were again tested for these specific inflammatory markers. So, what we could do is we could actually uh measure the change in the levels of inflammation before and then after the end of six weeks. So yeah, so we and obviously you know there's more and more research that's coming out with profound links of your gut microbiome linked to inflammation, inflammatory diseases, inflammatory conditions. And of course, that relates back to 70% of your of your immune system actually resides in your gut, right? So actually, I didn't know that. I didn't know the percentage of the food.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

So like right, right. I'm like, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Um yeah, no, 70% of your immune system actually resides in your gut. Um so your gut actually is basically like the command system, you know, that your your gut can actually, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a lot, it's a lot. Um so if you're you know, if you're looking after your gut, I mean if you want to tame down inflammation in your body, your gut's the first place to look at. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

That makes sense. Okay, so you tested the symbiotic formula, and then one group took that, and then there was two other or three other groups that they were taking.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

So we had yeah, so we had a uh group that took the symbiotic, we had a control group that basically didn't take anything. We also uh tested this against single source supplements. So I had a group that took just the inulin uh fiber that I talked about, the prebiotic inulin fiber. And then yeah, and then another group that took 500 milligrams of omega-3. So the reason why we included omega-3 was because omega-3 is a known anti-inflammatory.

unknown 12:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

So, what we wanted to do was actually compare the effects of a known anti-inflammatory effects of inulin, which is actually a known prebiotic, and there were loads of studies uh before I conducted this uh this trial to prove that inulin fiber has beneficial effects in modulating the composition of the gut microbiome, uh, and also had uh some effects on reducing inflammation. But what I wanted to do was actually do a comparative study to see whether the symbiotic actually outperforms single source supplements. So that was basically the the study, the study design.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

And is the 500 milligrams is that standard like the dosage or how did you come up with the dose?

SPEAKER_03 12:59

So 500 milligrams is the lower end, I would say. It's not, I mean, people take at least 1000 milligrams of three dollars. They can go up to yeah, they can go up to like you know. Um, but we went we went with 500 because that's the um the safest um dose you could take. And again, just mind you that these were all healthy volunteers, so you know we didn't want to sort of load them up with too much of omega-3, so we just went with the the safest amount and an amount that can actually cause an effect as well. So 500 milligrams has been shown to to have effects on reducing inflammation. So we went with that dosage.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

And did they take the supplements or daily? Did they take whatever they were taking daily?

SPEAKER_03 13:50

No. So we were they were asked to so participants who enrolled into our study were asked to, well, first of all, they were they were only enrolled if they weren't taking, if they weren't actively taking any supplements, and obviously were asked not to take any other supplements whilst they were on their on the six-week trial period as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Okay. But like how often did they take for each in the group when they were in the experimental groups, their designated groups, how often did they take the supplement?

SPEAKER_03 14:21

Like in the literally had to take it, oh sorry, yeah, you meant like on the on the actual study.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Well, they're gonna take the other day.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

Um, I meant you thought you you you asked me about other supplements, but no, they were meant to, they were asked to take it every single day for six weeks.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Okay, okay, yeah. So I probably asked the question improperly, sorry about that, but we're back on the same track. Okay, so results. Can you tell our listeners about some of the results that you found?

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Yeah, sure. Um, so I think I was really glad with the results because um the hypothesis was that the symbiotic would outperform the single source supplements, and it did. Um, so the combination of the uh the kefir and the prebiotic blend reduced a much wider range of inflammatory markers. So we had at least seven inflammatory markers that were significantly reduced in the symbiotic arm compared to the inulin-only arm and the omega-3 only arm. So the inulin arm, we did see reductions inflammation, but the the magnitude of those reductions were nothing compared to what we saw in the in the symbiotic arm.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Oh, really?

unknown 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

So it was that big of a difference. That was yeah, it was it was it was a huge difference. So in the in the symbiotic arm, we at least saw about seven inflammatory markers um massively reduced. We in the in in the inulin arm, we saw about four inflammatory markers, and in the omega-3, we just saw two. So those were just, I mean, when you look at the numbers, this was the difference. But then when you also look at the magnitude of the change, the symbiotic arm um just completely outperformed the the inulin and the omega-3.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Wow, that's interesting. Uh, what what was what about the control group? Did anything happen there? Nope. Like nothing in the control group.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

All right. Which is which is good because you'd you'd have to see that, right? Um, it's a it's a it's a it's a well-controlled study when you don't see any changes in the control norm.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because you know, you're wondering like, is could this person be eating something that's you know causing so that is that is interesting. So how did you feel about your results? Were you it sounds like you expected this to happen?

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Well, yeah, so you you obviously go in with with a hypothesis, right? When you design a study. So this was this was actually the hypothesis that the symbiotic would actually outperform the inulin and the omega-3. So when when it did when it did happen, obviously, I'm sure the other scientists listening to this, uh, you know, it's this is Eureka moment all the time when when the experiment works, when your results look amazing. And then when you reach that statistical, you know, threshold and you can see the asterisk on your on your bar on your bar graph, that's that's so nerdy. I love it. Yeah, that's that's it. That's when you sleep really well at night.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Oh, you're such a researcher. I love it. Um so what do you think if someone said to you like, okay, or if someone asked you the question, like, okay, like, so should I start eating fermented foods? Like, are those better than omega-3s or fiber? Is that what you're saying? Because you know, people after they hear my podcast, they're always like, they'll send me messages like, should I get this at the store? And I'm like, oh, I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

I'd say, I mean, there's there's a lot of research research that's coming out on the importance of fermented foods and the um it was it was obviously my study that came out towards the end of last year, but there was also a study by the University of Stanford that came out a couple of years ago where they actually did a similar sort of study where they looked at a group that were given, they were asked to eat six different servings of fermented foods in a day, and then they compared that group to a group that were asked to increase their fiber intake to at least 20 grams per day. And again, it was it was a similar sort of time frame, about six, six weeks, where people were asked to, you know, the fermented group were asked to eat six servings of fermented foods daily for six weeks, and then the the high fiber group asked to increase their fiber intake to at least 20 grams uh for six weeks. And again, the outcomes that they measured were very similar to what we measured. So the the main outcome was again inflammation. And what they found was actually the fermented group, the the group that were asked to take the fermented foods again outperformed the groups that were the group that was that were asked to just increase their fiber intake. So there's there's there's definitely there's definitely something that's uh a lot more powerful when you talk about fermented foods. So it's it's definitely the microbial diversity that's present in fermented foods. So you know, when you when you compare a fermented food to a probiotic capsule, for example, you you've got much, much more wider diversity of beneficial bacteria, probiotics in fermented foods compared to a single source probiotic that you would normally find in a in a capsule. And having said that, it's not just the the diversity of the microbes that you find in fermented foods, but it's also the the beneficial compounds that these microbes produce whilst they're in that ecosystem. So you can see, you know, you open up a bottle of kefir, for example, it's it's highly fizzy. It's actually it's like opening up a bottle of champagne. But you'd see that if it's traditionally fermented, obviously. So if it's fermented the traditional way, you'd see that fizziness because you you have that strong microbial activity that's going on, and these microbes then produce gases, they produce acids, then that that sort of adds up to the fiziness of of the drink. And I don't know if you if you bake bread, if you make sourdough bread or anything. If you're gonna use the yeah, um yeah, it's it's so it's basically it's it's the it's the microbial profile and also the beneficial compounds that these microbes are producing whilst it's in that environment, whilst whilst it's in that ecosystem, which has direct effects when you when you actually consume these products, you're actually not just consuming the live microbes, but also those beneficial compounds that these microbes are producing. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

You know, it's funny because like I I don't know if you're on TikTok or whatever, you see all these nutrition trends, and everybody was like fiber, fiber, fiber. And when I think fiber is good, like I I add a lot of fiber to my diet, but and probably maybe both, right? Like eat fermented foods and eat fiber, like right, like I guess you can't really lose with that, can you?

SPEAKER_03 21:19

You can't, no, no, no. And I and I think that's exactly what my what the study shows as well, right? So it's fermented foods and the fiber together together is is is basically what's what's most effective.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Um so it's not just the fiber on its own, it's not just the you know fermented foods. Obviously, these have their own benefits, yeah. But then when you combine them together is when you actually see the most the most benefits.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

And when we when we talk about fermented foods as well, right? So if you talk about things like kimchi, sacra, that's actually a symbiotic because you've got the fibers from from the cabbage or the vegetables. You use and then obviously it's naturally fermented, so then you've got those live microbes as well. So when you think about it, that is actually a symbiotic because you've got your pro and your prebiotic together.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

I love that because I get pushing at the farmer's market too. And yeah, I didn't I and I would you're right, I would think of it as fermented, but now I'll think about it as a symbiotic. I'll announce I know myself, I'll go to the farmer's market this weekend and I'll just announce that to like the person next to me and be like, by the way, did you know? They'll be so impressed with me. Is that is this the diet you follow? Like you seem like you probably I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

Well, it's um it's it's um it's interesting, right? So you when you do research, you're like, oh my god, this is amazing. And then you start because when I when I first did the, you know, when I when I looked at inulin first, you know, I was I was actually adding inulin onto my onto my smoothies and porridge and things in the morning because it was like, oh, inulin's amazing. So um yeah, you you you do end up incorporating that as part of your diet. And obviously, like, you know, you go to the farmer's market and you talk about it. That's exactly what I do as well. Obviously, talk to my friends and relatives, but although, you know, the family is like, oh my god, no, not again.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Don't want to be like listening to Well, I mean, I get that with some family, but right now we're in this age of everybody wants to know what to eat, you know, and there's like there's all the processed food research, and we've changed our we flipped our sorry, we flipped our food pyramid like upside down. I mean, I don't know if we if it's exactly upside down, but it's that's like what people are saying. So it's just all this emphasis on uh you know food and what to eat and the microbiome. So your research is certainly very timely.

SPEAKER_03 23:41

I think so too. Yeah, and I've and I I also think that it just it doesn't need to be complicated. You know, we we we talk about re we talk about research, and again, that's one of the things that I've I've learned, obviously also working alongside Chuckling Goethe, for example, and working with the company, you come out of your academic shell and you realize that okay, well, you know, the stuff that's on a scientific paper, when a lay person reads it, they're not going to understand anything out of that scientific paper. It's boring. Yeah, it's like, oh my god, yeah, that's way too complicated for me. Like, just just tell me what I need to eat. Like, like you said, you have you have your your listeners coming to you and saying, Can you just let me know what to eat? And it's it's not complicated. I mean, I'm I we use scientific technical terms like probiotics and prebiotics and symbiotics, but ultimately it's just food. It's real food that you you you can you know you can just rustle up at home. Um, it's not rocket science, it's you know, it's not it's not made in a lab. Um you know, this is it's just stuff that you can, like you said, you go to the farmer's market, you can you can get yourself, you know, some some cabbage, you can get yourself um some kefir. I'm not sure whether you do have kefir out in the markets there, but yeah, you can just get a bottle of that.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

We do, we do, yeah. We have like yogurt, homemade yogurt and keifer at some of the yeah, some of the stands that come in.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Yeah, yeah. So it's it's it's really not hard. I mean, it's just getting your hands on on real food that you can bring home to rustle something up and and having that on um, you know, being consistent with it. I think that's that's right.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

You know, you can't okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, the the studies that we do in in laboratories, obviously we we test it over a specific period of time because we obviously, you know, we can't keep doing research, you know, indefinitely, but we do we want to see why you know within six weeks you actually see these massive results, but then the key is actually to carry on. Yeah, yeah, sustain that and to make sure that those effects are actually um they turn into long-term benefits and you know, yeah, they stick, they don't fall off fall off the cliff as soon as you've you've you reached that, and then you you're like, oh yeah, you know, I've I've hit my I've hit my grades in terms of you know my blood reports and things, and then you're like, oh yeah, whatever now, you know, I can go back to it's all about the long-term, you know, and I I've talked to people who are on um GLP1s, and then they stopped, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:19

And then the weight came back on like really fast. And to your point, it's like you you still need to have like these behavior changes, like dietary changes, um, you know, along with anything, you know, any sort of pharmaceutical pharmaceutical intervention. So I don't know why it's so hard for people to make change. We know behavior change is really hard, right? And we and I don't know, but you studied food processing, like, and so I'm curious. Like, do you have any thoughts on how we're making food? Like, do you think that it is addict, is it's made to be addicting, and that's why it's harder for us to say, that is so good, but I I'm not gonna eat it.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

Yeah, definitely. There is um, there are specific ingredients in ultra-processed foods, for example, that does turn into an addiction. So basically you crave more of that same thing over and over again because of specific ingredients that put that's that's basically put in it. But you know your microbiome also has an effect on on cravings. Yeah, you you can you can sort of modulate the composition of your microbiome in a way that if you want to stop craving sugar, you can modulate your microbiome in a way that it just stops, it helps you from stop craving sugary things. How do I do that? I mentioned about 70% of your immune system residing in your gut. There's also a gut-brain connection. So you things like appetite, um, obviously, you've got specific receptors in your gut that regulate so the GLP1 stuff that you just mentioned about. Um but also you've got signals, you know, that your brain sends out as well. So your sodium signals and um your cravings and all of that. That's that's your gut brain link actually coming into play. So um there are there are, I mean, they're not big studies, but they're very smart studies at the moment showing that when you modulate your microbiome, so when you when you increase your fiber intake, when you you know incorporate whole grains and fermented foods and things like that, you're craving for for sugar and you're craving for I don't want to say unhealthy foods, but basically things that that might be detrimental to your health would you know would diminish over time as well. Go down. Yeah, exactly. So you've got that link. You've got that link as well. And they're very, very small studies that are coming out at the moment, but yeah, there's that link as well. So I think yourself the right things can actually shift your cravings.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah, it's funny. Recently, um, this pastry chef he made these like gluten-free, um, I don't know what your thoughts are on gluten, but he's like, there's these gluten-free pastry, and he wanted me to try it. And I tried it, but the sugar was so high. Like, and I don't eat a lot of sugar, I do cook and bake a lot at home, and I just could not finish it. And the same thing has happened to me recently with salt, like the more I cook at home, and then when I go eat out, and I'm like, oh my God, this is so salty, and I really notice the difference. And I guess if you eat out a lot, like it probably goes in the other direction. You forget, like, you know, oh my, this is really high in sugar, this is really high in salt, or you just get used to it, you know. Maybe there's something to do with the microbiome there. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And obviously you've got your you've got all of your taste buds and in all of that as well.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Yeah. That's true. The yeah that's right. You change your taste buds, but I can't do high sugar anymore. It's like, oh at least for now. I mean, I know the cravings can come and go. I get that. They can be tough. So you didn't directly measure changes in the microbiome in this study, but you know, are you do you plan on doing another study or how should listeners interpret your results related to the microbiome?

SPEAKER_03 30:11

So we're working on that at the moment, Eric. So we're working, yeah. So we've we've obviously collected uh we've got microbiome data that's been that's been processed. Um, so I'm working through that data now. So that's going to be paper number two. So listeners can actually watch out for that.

unknown 30:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Oh, so this is like all in the works.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm working on it as we speak. So yeah, so that's definitely coming out because I think one of the mechanisms, well, one of the main mechanisms as to why we're seeing those massive drops in information, you know, we we we we'd like to link that back to the microbiome, and that's what I'm doing at the moment, because we're looking at not just the shift in in the composition, but also the functionality of these gut bacteria. Um, so but was there a shift in the activity, not just the presence of these bacteria, but also the activity of these bacteria? So that's what I'm looking at at the moment, because I think that's going to help us connect the dots uh between you know the drops we're seeing in inflammation to the changes that that might have occurred in the in the microbiome.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

So this is a continuation study. It's the same people?

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Okay, it's the same people. We've just sort of split the data into two because um we just want we just got really excited with inflammatory and we were like, right, let's just put this out and then we'll we'll work on the we'll work on the microbiome data uh and get that out separately. So yeah, so we're working on that at the moment, so we should we should have that out.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Oh, that's great. That's great. Yeah. Chugging along. Um so what are your thoughts given your work and the research? Um do you think food-based interventions for targeting, you know, or maybe a better word is preventing chronic disease is where the future is. Uh, do you think we'll see more of that? And how tailored down do you think it will be? Like, will it be like follow this really strict protocol, or will it be more like add more of this to your diet kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_03 32:22

I think I'm gonna start with the your last question first. I know.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

I always ask like five questions in one. I have it's like something I have to work on.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Yeah, no, the the the straight answer to that is it's all about including stuff to your diet rather than excluding and eliminating things into your diet, uh, from your diet, sorry. The more things you add into your diet, the more diverse your diet's gonna be, the more diverse your microbiome's gonna be. Um, the minute you start eliminating things, so for example, you know, you've got people who you think that gluten's really bad for them without a clinical diagnosis of them being sensitive to gluten. Um you've got people who steer clear, uh steer away from including beans in their diet because they feel a bit bloated after eating some beans. So I mean they could be there could be um physiological conditions that might be associated with those symptoms. But if you haven't been diagnosed with them, or if you if you're not you know chronically ill with those symptoms, um, and you're just you're just excluding them because of you know the the latest trend, or you just think that oh, I feel a bit bloated after eating, you know, a little bit of beans, I just want to stay clear from it. Those I'd say, you know, that's not the right approach. Um, I'd say including things in your diet is the way forward. And in terms of food first approach, I'd say yes. Supplements, like the word, you know, the word supplement means to supplement your diet, right? So if you're not able to meet your your daily requirements, as part of your daily diet, then you'd look to supplement your diet. But I'd say if you're able to meet your requirements from a whole food approach, from a food-first approach, and you know, you're you're able to operate a diverse diet that way, I would say, you know, you're doing great. But then realistically speaking, I think 80% of us, I mean, let's just be pragmatic, right? We're not able to achieve that, you know, diverse, you know, you're not you you can't you can't be sitting here with a plate looking like a rainbow every single day, right? That's hard work. I mean, let's be honest. Yeah.

unknown 34:57

Right.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

So I'd say I think in the current in the current scenario and with with the way that the where we're evolving and the way you know the food around us is evolving, I'd say there's nothing wrong in turning to supplements, but I'd say just relying on supplements alone is is not the right approach again. So you'd look at supplements to supplement your existing diet, and it's it's basically to fill the gaps in your existing diet. And I would agree with that. Yeah, it's it's basically to fill the gaps. And if if you are struggling, then yeah, just just just take go go for supplements. That's definitely going to help fill in the gaps. But then if you're if you're relying on supplements for you to feel better, no.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Yeah, yeah. No, I I totally agree with that. And I mean, let's face it, a lot of supplements are marketing too, right? Like, just they sound really good. And I mean, you even feel it inside yourself. Like sometimes if you go to a store and you look at a supplement or you watch a commercial or something and you're like, wow, that sounds great. Like, maybe I should try it. And then you you're like, talk yourself, like, well, like, yeah, is it really? Or is it just like, am I just a victim for marketing again?

SPEAKER_03 36:17

Exactly. And I'd like I'd also like to mention that diversity is key, right? Diversity, diversity is key. Um good point. So even when you look when you look for supplements, you know, you want to look for something that's that's diverse. It's not it's not looking for so it's first of all, it's there's no single, there's no magic bullet, right? There's no single source nutrient. I mean, obviously you've got your um your magnesium and your your creatine and all and all these things that's right that people talk about, but when when you're talking about your microbiome, um and if you wanna if you want to see um substantial changes in your microbiome, diversity is is key. If you haven't got that diversity in your diet, so whether that's coming from your diet or whether you want to have if you if you've got a if you've got a decent diet, but you want a supplement, you've got to look for supplements that are also uh ultra diverse, so you can't you can't just keep having so for example inulin. Inulin's got some great effects and some great great properties, but then it's just one type of fiber.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

Right?

SPEAKER_03 37:30

So the effect that it would the the effects that it would have is just single-sided. But what you want is different types of fibers because your your microbes, your bacteria in your gut are picky eaters. They do not want to be eating the same thing over and over again. They thrive on diversity. So the more the more number of the more number of different fibers you've got in your diet, the more your bacteria are gonna be loving it, they're gonna be they're gonna be really excited that you're feeding it all these different types of fibers, and then they're gonna then that's when they actually grow and that's when they actually flourish and and thrive. So so diversity is is is key. And yeah, you know, I also when I talk about diet, it's also not having the same thing every single day.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Um it's you know, it's it's mixing it up, you know, having different types of vegetables, different types of fruits, because you've got different compounds, you've got different nutrients, you've got different fibers in all of these different fruit and wipes that you've got. So, yeah, so I'd say diversity is key, whether it's supplements, whether it's whole foods, um, yeah, you you want to look for something that's that's diverse.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Here's a question, and I don't know if there's a good answer for this, but let's say somebody is listening to this podcast and you're like, okay, I'm gonna do all those things and improve my microbiome. How do they know that they're improving their microbiome, or is this just sort of something we assume?

SPEAKER_03 39:01

So um, first things first, if they are, I mean, the simplest and easiest way to know that you're that you've got a healthy microbiome is um how often you go to the loo, for example. Um that's um yeah, well, we've you've you've got a Bristol stool chart. I don't know whether you've heard of that, but Bristol stool chart is basically a it's it's it's a reference, um it's a reference list to um how your pool needs to look. Um, and if it doesn't look like that, so you've got something that looks normal, but if it doesn't look like that, then you know you've got issues. So you've got diarrhea, you've got constipation, um, you've got your your normal your normal poo that needs to look like sausage shaped. And um to the details, but I don't want to gross people out. That's okay. This is hey folks who are listening, this is part of it. Yeah, well, it's it's paying attention to how often you go to the loo and just just looking down into your toilet bowl and just having a look at your poo. Um, that's one of the easiest ways of knowing how well the microbiome is functioning. Um, obviously, if you want to go deeper, um you know, you can you can get your microbiome tested. Uh, you can actually get a full-fledged um report of you know you know who's there, what what sort of bacteria you've got residing in your gut and what they're doing, and what levels and all of that. Um but I think the simplest, the simplest ways, if you want, you know, if you if you just want to monitor it, if you're if you've changed your diet and if you if you want to see, you know, my is my microbiome better, I think these are the simple things and also symptoms, so GI symptoms, so things like you know, simple things like bloating. You know, if you if you felt bloated before and you've changed your diet, um, you know, you corporated fermented foods, for example, you've sort of you know started incre increasing your your diversity um as part of your daily diet, you might see that the bloating's gotten better, or you know, over time you might just see that you might even realize that the bloating's gone away. So it's it's it's symptoms that you can pay attention to. It's obviously you know your your consistency of your stool again. Um and yeah, you've also got obviously energy and your immune system getting better when you're you know when you when your microbiome is better, you might you might also find that you you catch that cold less often or you know you're less ill um that often and you know you've sort of built up that immune resilience um over time by just by just changing a few things in your diet. So these are these are sort of like these are symptoms or things that you can pay attention to. Signals, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Absolutely. And like, you know, I mean, I have a dog, I don't know if you we all like the veterinarian will all be like, bring in a stool sample, right? Like it's just we don't like to talk about it, but it's you know, people get grossed out or whatever, but it's really just like, hey, look down, see what's going on down there, you know. Like I mean, it I think it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

Um yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

No, I can talk with with your partner or after a cup of coffee, like in the morning. That's that's my time. And I'm like, okay, I have to go to the bathroom now, see you later. But what's going on here? Let's normalize it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Just normalize it, especially with you know, all the issues that are happening, you know, with the colon and how important the microbiome is. Like, I think just normalizing it is is totally the right thing to do. It's like, yeah, more than acceptable. It's the right thing to do. So what do you hope that uh the take-home messages of of your research?

SPEAKER_03 43:14

Um, my the so the main take-home message uh is the importance of including fermented foods as part of your diet. And it's a lot, it's a lot more powerful than single source supplements. And it's definitely the combination, and I keep I keep saying fermented foods because it's not just the the probiotics from the fermented fermented food, but it's also the fiber and the prebiotic that you that you generally find in in fermented foods. So it's a combination of both of them, the pro and the pre, that has the most beneficial effects on whole. body health i mean inflammation is one of the key causes of 70 percent of your diseases right inflammation is is is is the driver of so many so many cases yeah yeah yeah so it basically sits in the core so if you're able to you're able to address inflammation and that's that's that's the key for long term for long term health I love this and I've and I've realized obviously with through my research that it's it's not single source supplements that's going to help you get there it's it's it's basically a combination of your beneficial microbes and also making sure that those beneficial microbes are fed the right fuel that they need to thrive and survive and grow.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

So so yeah so that's that would be my my take home I love it they're like the the good microbes in our gut they're like our teammates but we gotta like give our team what they what it needs to do all the stuff that it does. 100% I love that yes we are we are not alone yeah we're not alone we're definitely not alone like I mean I feel like in like I don't know 50 more years like the microbes are gonna have like personalities like because right because like we didn't know we knew so little and now we're learning like like how powerful these microbes are and then I'm like oh yeah they're gonna have personalities and moods and stuff in a few years that would be amazing I mean I'm just I'm just imagining it and that yeah that'd be really cute right I mean if you imagine having having your little microbes have uh personalities and uh you've got the grumpy one and you've got like hair bears yeah like like like one's like like all sunny the other one's like grumpy like yeah no not doing work today sorry see you later exactly this was great thank you Amrita and I hope um when your other paper comes out uh if let me know uh because I'd love to see the results I'm curious too it's good stuff good good for good for you and all your fellow researchers really um making a difference uh I think this is where it's at like the type of stuff you're doing is so important so as long as you keep getting funding because we all know that's tough to do.

SPEAKER_03 46:20

Yes yeah that's the uh that's the main thing right oh I know it's you know it's it's exciting when you see those asterisk on top of your your your bar graphs but you have sleep right the money's yeah you're funded your idea yeah all right well enjoy the rest of your day there what time is it it's uh 10 to 10 to 4.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

Oh wow okay four yeah no thanks for having me I was I was absolutely all right every enjoy the rest of your day there thanks Evan thank you so much bye bye bye bye all right gang thanks so much for joining in uh if there's one takeaway it's that relatively simple dietary changes tasty ones even over a few weeks may shift markers of inflammation in measurable ways which is good news considering all the trouble associated with inflammation if you are feeling extra nerdy and want to go deeper I'm not judging I think it's a good thing I'll link to Emrita's study in the show notes and also while you're there I hope you take two seconds to sign up for my newsletter where I post interviews with researchers the WTF news summaries of the day uh and other tidbits you won't see on social media. Okay and now it's time for the closing quote this one is from Arnold Eret eret er t-r-e t I don't know how to pronounce that sorry uh I don't know how to pronounce that erate eret I don't know sorry and here it is life is a tragedy of nutrition boom mic dropped that's it all right yeah what do you think about that one it's it's uh it's not really uplifting but um you know it's true all right that's it I hope you tune in next time and goodbye for now