Can You Be Happy Single? What the Research Really Says, with Prof Elyakim Kislev

Can you be genuinely happy and, even thrive,  as a single person? 

In this episode, Professor Elyakim Kislev, author of Happy Singlehood: The Rising Acceptance and Celebration of Solo Living, discusses the growing global trend toward singlehood and what the research says about happiness, loneliness, marriage, and solo living. 

We explore the difference between being alone and being lonely, why some people enter relationships out of fear of loneliness, and most importantly, what distinguishes happy singles from unhappy singles.

 Professor Kislev also discusses the concepts of social loneliness and emotional loneliness, common myths surrounding singlehood, and findings suggesting that many never-married older adults report high levels of well-being and life satisfaction. 

We also examine cultural pressures surrounding marriage and family formation, whether marriage itself improves health and happiness, how researchers study these questions, and what it really takes to build a meaningful, connected, and fulfilling life—whether you're single, married, dating, or somewhere in between.

Professor Elyakim Kislev is a faculty member in the School of Public Policy and Government at The Hebrew University and a Research Fellow at the Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace. He earned his Ph.D. in Sociology from Columbia University and holds master's degrees in counseling, public policy, and sociology. A Fulbright Fellow and recipient of the Award for Outstanding Fulbright Scholars, his research focuses on singlehood, family, well-being, and social policy. He is the author of Happy Singlehood: The Rising Acceptance and Celebration of Solo Living.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Causes or Cures Podcast, your gateway to understanding health and groundbreaking medical research in a fun and easy to understand way. With Dr. Eats is your house, join us as we sit down with the world's leading doctors and scientists to unravel the mysteries of health. From practical tips on well-being to the latest breakthroughs in medical research, we cover it all. Don't forget to subscribe. Let's ignite our curiosity and together dive into today's episode.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Hello, hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of Causes or Cures. I'm Dr. Eeks, your host, and thanks for joining in. So, can you be genuinely happy and even thrive as a single person? For many people out there, the idea of a happy life has long been tied to marriage and couplehood, finding the one. Some people feel incomplete when they're not in a relationship. But a growing body of research suggests that singlehood is not simply a waiting room for a relationship. It can be the destination. In fact, many people build deeply meaningful, connected, and fulfilling lives while living on their own. It's where they want to be. In this episode of Causes or Cures, I sit down with Professor Ilya Kim Kislev of the Hebrew University and author of Happy Singlehood, the rising acceptance and celebration of solo living. We discuss what the research says about happiness, loneliness, marriage, and solo living, why being alone is not the same as being lonely, and what distinguishes happy singles from unhappy singles. We also explore some of the biggest myths surrounding singlehood and what really seems to matter when it comes to living a happy, connected, and meaningful life. All right, give me a few seconds here, gang, while we connect to him and get the scoop. All right, everyone, we are connecting with Professor Ilya Kim Kislev. Hopefully I didn't massacre your name, but we're gonna talk about Happy Singlehood, the book that he wrote. And thanks so much for joining in from Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, and can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and how you got interested in this topic?

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Oh wow, two um two good questions. Uh so I'm I'm Elekin Kisleva, I'm a associate professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Um, and I study. I'm also, by the way, uh, if that's important, I'm also the co-chair of the International Single Studies Association, acronym by goes by ISA, ISSA. And I got interested uh in single studies and singlehood in general, I guess around 10 years ago, I lived in New York. Um as you probably know, uh, New York is full with uh singles rushing from one place to another, dating uh endlessly, and uh are very bitter about it. Uh most of the time. There are some picks, there are some picks, uh good picks, but um uh usually uh usually it's not easy. And I wanted to understand what's going on. What do we actually need, and how can singles be can be happy and satisfied in between dating, or if they choose so just leave aside dating for a while at least, um and focus on their lives as singles. That was the the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

That was the beginning, and then you wrote a whole book, you did some studies, and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

So that was so so I went I went on and um I thought so. At the time I I studied in uh at Columbia University, uh I I did my PhD. Actually, I did my PhD on uh migration stuff. Uh so seemingly unrelated, but immigrants, for one thing, uh a population, population that has needs and habits and culture and networks, uh social networks, work network networks, and then I thought, wait, what will happen if we think about singlehood and singles in general as a population in and of themselves? So instead of thinking about singlehood as a transitory uh phase on the way to somewhere um standing on, I don't know, in the train station or the subway station, let's say, uh, waiting for uh for the subway to come and in the meantime just suffering from from heat or from cold or from whatever uh rats all around. Instead, we will think about them as a population that has needs, has a structure in itself, what that means for their friendships, uh for their values, what do they do uh in terms of sex networks? How do you they uh how do they build it, and so on and so forth. So, how for example, how do they manage work relations in at the workplace? Do they get the exact same benefits? What are the plans? What are the plans um for for the future? So for aging, if they choose to stay single. So all these questions came up together as as uh a giant research. Actually, I started it very small and it became giant. Um, I took on one side I took 300,000 data points, uh, respondents uh from the European Social Survey from over uh 30 countries in 10 waves, altogether 300,000 people, um, and an analyzed it uh quantitatively. Uh, but I also wanted to understand what's going on in their lives. So I interviewed 142 uh people, mostly in the US, actually, Americans, and then one uh one last resource was blogs and posts about singlehood. And through text analysis, I I really wanted to understand how their lives look like. Uh, what do they do? What do they want in the 21st century, not in like traditions or whatever whatever ideology?

SPEAKER_03 7:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Um, yep.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

Okay, so yeah, you had a lot of data points, and your book is very good. I enjoyed it. I read some of it and then I listened to the audiobook because I just got this audio membership, so I was trying, I was trying that out. But you know, you write a lot about how singlehood is a growing trend, even in some parts of the world where you would think maybe it wouldn't be. And uh, but there's still cultural disapproval and there's still stigma. Is that how you feel today that it's still that's still the case?

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Absolutely, absolutely still, and not even in traditional conservative society, it's also in liberal places, in the academia, many uh scholars and people and society in general, even in western countries, still think of marriage or at least partnership as the ideal uh life trajectory. And here's a question. So it's interesting for some people, yes, and on average, and we will talk about it. On average, we must acknowledge that married people and partnered people are happier in general. We will talk about why there is a gap, but the question before even before uh considering the gap, and it's actually it's very interesting to consider the gap and why is it, but even before considering the gap, we need to think about uh let's say uh the diversity, the the different groups within the single population. So it doesn't, it's not one size fits all, right? Um it's actually we find different sub-populations within the single population. Uh and if listeners or or people in general will think what fits them and how they construct their narrative in their mind about a singlehood and what do they want exactly uh for marriage and partnership, some people will say, and I'm sure most people will say, I want to be in a relationship, but my data and and the survey analyze, not only from Europe, also from uh from other parts of the world, showing that around a quarter of the single population out of the single population do not want to have a relationship, at least not at the moment. Uh, and I'm talking about grown-ups, um, I'm talking about adults, and I'm even talking about age 30 and above. It's not students that focus on their studies.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Yeah, yeah, trying to finish their studies. So for that group of folks who are choosing or want to remain single, what can you say about that group? Why are they choosing that? Obviously, if they're choosing it or they're content, they're okay, like they're fine.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Yeah, so uh one question I I went I I went to I went to explore and study is why so some people don't choose to be single, and some people choose to see to be single, but even those who choose to be single, some of them actually uh feel uh in negative terms, they they they phrase it in negative terms. I will give you an example. Some people will say dating was a trauma for me. I don't want to repeat, I don't want to enter into uh the relationship scene, the dating scene anymore. Um, or I need a break. Men are horrible, or women are horrible, or whatever. Um, I just don't want to experience that anymore, or for the time being. Another group within this singles by choice actually say, I figured that singlehood is easier for me, singlehood is better for me. I have more freedom, I can be more creative, I can move around. Yeah, I I see all these advantage uh advantages in in being single. I want to stay single. And I went on to study what gifts out of these two groups, what is stronger and what group is more dominant. And actually, I discovered that there is a correlation, strong correlation between thinking I want to stay single, and um thinking singlehood is easier and life satisfaction. So it's more about the positive narrative than the negative narrative. But once again, it's a diverse group, uh, and and everyone has its own narrative.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Everyone has their own narrative. Okay, I I can appreciate that. Now, what about you know, I agree, I it's easier, but is there this also this kind of tendency like you don't want to make a commitment or you know variety is the spice of life. People, I mean, if you lived in New York City, I'm sure you've experienced that. People, you know, are date, and you use the word dating, but like that's a that's uh that's a kind term, but you know, people are all over the place and they say people are happy or not settling down. I'm sure you've heard the term Peter Pan, and I actually don't know what the term is for a woman, probably not as flattering as Peter Pan or as but that's true, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Yeah, stigma, yeah, stigma is more pronounced against women, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

Against women, right? And it I feel like it's changing. You you see you see different things happening, you know. There's all like like you point out, there's all sorts of narratives out there, there's all sorts of people, but um do you think it's selfish? Like in your research, did you is that something that you would call it, or is this just something like, hey, no, this is just better for me?

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Well, once again, we are talking about about the um common people. What but let's let's ask this let's ask this in this way. One question I studied actually recently is whether singles are more narcissistic narcissistic, and that's what's like a more uh let's say research-based uh term, uh instead of just saying selfish, right? Okay, uh, even though even though that selfish and narcissism are not necessarily bad, so for sure the NPD, the narcissist's personality disorder, is considered um uh dysfunctional, and it's part of the DSM. But lines of narcissism are just as a by the way, just like open a pand uh parenthesis, lines of narcissism in personality can even be good. So uh for example, in in one in one study I showed so among women in a relationship, having uh lines of narcissism and especially the admiration side of narcissism, not the rivalry side of narcissism, is actually good for the relationship satisfaction. And the reason is that uh it covers up for some traditional and and conventional um kind of disadvantage or inferiority of women uh versus versus men, and actually these lines of narcissism cover up for this one and and push them to be more satisfied. So, having said that, singles show a little bit more uh often narcissism. Um, it's significant, statistically significant, but the gap is very low. So I want I I will say yes, it's something related to um to a greater focus on oneself, but it's not so pronounced.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

Right, I I I get that. And going back to like, you know, people want us to be creative, or you know, you talk when you think about like a writer or an artist or something like that, right? Like they spend a lot of time alone doing their creative process, or someone who's trying to run a business and stuff like that, and they're so engaged in it. And sometimes I think they can view like a relationship or a partnership as uh maybe something that's not gonna add to that or take them away from that, and they find it hard to balance. It might be a tough choice for them, too. You know, it might not be like a clear-cut, like it might be a painful choice. But I want to ask you this. So, in your book, when I was reading and and and you looked at the studies, it seems like singlehood was compared to marriage and sort of like the conventional definition of marriage. But as you and I both know, there's so many, and you touch on this in the book, there's so many situationships out there. There's people living together, there's, you know, there's groups of people living together today. Uh, there's all sorts of arrangements going on. And I'm just so how do you define singlehood? Is it some and in your research, is it something that's opposed to marriage, or is it something that's opposed to any more than one person living together in an intimate way, I guess?

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Right. So actually, there are several questions uh there.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

And in all of the count them all, wow. That's really good.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Yeah, so I'll just I'll just say, um, let's start from the end. So in my book, in my most of my studies, I compared uh single people to married people, but also to cohabitating people without marriage, and the difference between cohabitating people and and married people are are kind of like in most most cases, I will talk about it in in a minute, but in most cases um they hardly exist. So we are talking basically about about the difference between partnered people uh that live together uh and single people that don't live together. Having said that, there is one difference, and this goes back to your to your question about values, about creativity. So let me let me just um say it this way first, there is the work-life balance and the career, career or education life balance. In this sense, relationship is kind of competition to uh career-driven people or people that want to focus on their work, but uh there is some colour um to it because single people are not only like uh they're not only focusing on their work per se, they focus on meaningful work and meaningful jobs. They want to find meaning in what they do in their career, and for this reason, uh it's not about the salary per se, it's more about investing, as you kind of um mentioned, investing in creativity and and finding their own statement in what they do. In another research, uh, and related to this one, I found that single people show uh higher values or higher levels of post-materialist values. So instead of uh worrying about security, financial security, stability, and so on, what we call post materialist values is more about freedom, creativity, try new things. Um, and single people not only show higher level of this kind of uh values, they also derive greater happiness if they hold these values. So just to make it clear, for every additional point or every additional level that single people uh hold these values and believe in freedom and creativity and want to devote themselves uh to creativity, their happiness, their overall happiness actually increase um in sharper slow or higher, even higher. They get uh more benefit than married people will hold uh if they if married people or partner people hold these values. So, this overall gives you a picture of what singlehood means in today's world. It's not only about just like giving up on one specific life trajectory of being partnered, living together, having this suburban home, house, and so on. It's also about choosing in one life scenario, in an or another's life scenario, full of meaning, creativity, and materialize their own their own self.

SPEAKER_03 21:14

That's interesting, that's such a great point. One thing you write about in your book, and correct me if I'm wrong, because it could be my interpretation, but like this fear of loneliness that drives people to partnerships and marriage. And I feel like that was a theme in your book. And I was trying, I was sitting with that and I was thinking about that, and I'm like, is that a good reason, number one, to get married or find a partner because you have this fear of loneliness. And I think you kind of talked about how it's almost like conditioned in us to have this. How can you trust a relationship like that if like it's a fear of loneliness that's driving it?

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yeah, that's an interesting point. So uh it's not my research. Um, I cite in my book, I cite other other people that uh already showed that fear of loneliness is one of the top reasons why people enter a relationship, and actually, there is another research that shows that it's a top uh reason for people to go back to their exes and reunite with their exes just because they fear of being alone, so that's important. But singlehood, or I will say this way happy singles are the ones that acknowledge this fear and actually deal directly. And I show I show in in my book and and throughout the interviews how people go through a process uh of forming uh social networks, forming alternatives, like even buying buying a house together and moving in together with their friends, and even adjusting it to to have like one room for for playing and another room for whatever exercise, adjusting their lives to single to the to the life of singlehood.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Yeah, and I you know you hear that a lot, like when people who are single they'll say things like, Oh my god, you're gonna die alone, and and this, and like I when I think about that, and just watching, you know, I I went through medical school, and obviously you watch people die, like you've seen a lot of people who were married, who still die alone, who have like kids who still die alone. And I'm like, why is there this fear around dying alone? It's like as if you can control how you exit this world. Yeah, yeah. I mean, personally, I want to die like in the middle of the woods and like on my terms and like be food for the coyotes or something. Like, I just I just don't want to be tethered to a hospital bed for very long, god willing. So it's just it's interesting to me, like this you're going to die alone. Who the heck doesn't die alone?

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Yeah, there are there are several considerations. The I mean this actually takes us back to the to the to the question of of the gap between married people and animated people. Um, but if it even before then, so people people that wait. Um are you looking for a word? You asked about the fear of dying alone. Yeah, let's just let's let's just cut uh the uh this one. Ah, I had an amazing point about it.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

You make it might come back fear of dying alone. Why do people have this? The gap.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Uh I'm not helping. You talked about oh, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

You got it. Wow, good job.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

So, yeah, so that's interesting because people fear of this scenario, and it's quite common, but there are several considerations uh in this one. So, for one, I show in my book, and this is really important, that everything is fine, but once one of the of the partners gets unemployed or unhealthy, there is double the chance that their partners will leave them. So it's interesting because we think about relationship as an insurance policy, but actually people are not so naive about this kind of uh let's say contract. Of course, love can be can be very strong and feelings can be very strong, and and many people stay with their parents, uh with their partners, I'm sorry. But but also we have the phenomenon of people leaving their partners if there is pressure or extreme burden. So so that's one. Another one is a phenomenon that we call greedy marriage. Uh, and this is important because this is an advice, even to married or partnered listeners. Many people get into relationships, especially men actually, uh, they get into a relationship and they abandon or neglect neglect their social uh surroundings, social networks and friends. Um, and over time they they find themselves actually very dependent on their partners. And this this is bad for two reasons. One, if they stay, the the let's say the best scenario is that they stay with their partners, this partner is the only source, the only provider of support for them. And objectively, in some cases, it can be very hard for one person to deal with whatever good wishes or whatever uh goodwill they have. Uh, it can be very hard for one person to deal with unemployment, health conditions, and so on of one person of uh another person. And of course, in the background, there is the the fact that single people invest in their social surroundings, they invest in their friends, uh, they develop social networks, so uh strong social networks over time. Another problem for the greedy marriage problem is that uh once uh men, especially men, but once people leave relationships and if they get divorced, and uh we already know that there is a 40 to 50 percent chance of partners to get divorced, and this is the reality once they get divorced, these years usually their healthy years were invested in their partners while they abandoned their friends. So, usually, what we called in grey divorce, in in divorce that happened in in the age of 50 and 60, and so on, people lose their friends, lose their partnerships, lose their marriage, and stay alone to deal with all these problems that they fear, they fear a long time ago, 20, 30 years ago, they fear to have, and that's that that was one of the top reasons for them to get into a relationship to begin with.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

Ah, yeah. Wow, that's like a big catch 22. That's a big catch-22. In a way, in a way, yeah. Yeah, and you you wrote about that in your book, which I found interesting. Like the people who were single were happier than the people who were divorced or the people who were married and you know, maybe lost their spouse. And I think you just made that point because the single people kind of knew how to build their social networks, you know, activities, like make being alone like okay for them, which I think it might be a skill set, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Absolutely. And this is one really my number one advice for married people and partnered people. If you choose to enter a relationship, do yourself a favor and don't abandon your friends and your single friends and your your social support system. It's highly, highly, highly important. It seems hard job sometimes, it seems tough to maintain relationships and to focus on the on your own romantic relationship, but it's the number one advice that we see all over. Don't abandon your friends. Sounds sounds silly, sounds, sounds very simple, but it's like complicated.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes people do it because there's like jealousy or the spouse gets angry, or yeah, and then and then you, yeah, it's hard to balance all these things. I'm curious, do you think we have all the data points on how happily how on how happy married people are? You know, and I'm sure you've come across this in your line of work. You know, I know a lot of people who feel kind of stuck in their marriages or even their long-term partnerships and they don't know what to do, they're unhappy, and they feel really lonely. And I think you talk about this in the book where loneliness can be the emotional loneliness. Like you might have a physical body next to you, but they feel emotionally lonely. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Absolutely. So, uh, our rule of thumb in research is that 30%, uh, and this is like general findings, it depends, of course, on society and and and cultural differences, but overall, 30% of married people feel lonely. And this is quite remarkable. But within this uh population, I want actually to move forward and talk about a subpopulation. And this this is a kind of a story. I I I delivered a workshop in Portugal a few years ago, and uh we kind of uh exercise exercised some um uh alone time, solitude time, and the difference between loneliness and solitude. And later on, actually, a woman came, uh an American woman from New York actually, uh, came to me and said, you know what? I'm married, I have three children, um, I have a loving husband, but I think I think I'm a closeted single. And this is really important because this is this is a subpopulation, and people really think, of course, it's a spectrum, it's not it's a scale, it's not one or uh zero or one, it's not um that people are totally single and and they are in a relationship. Some people, yes, some people need their total the spelt space, uh mental space to be total and and surround themselves with creativity and freedom and and thinking, and that's all. Uh, but many people it's it's a scale that they need to figure where are they on on a scale in terms of how how much single time and how much single space they need within marriage. And because we have this, uh, we call it in research mount marriage, uh, the mount of expectations out of marriage. It will be ideal, wonderful, loving. Uh people, uh partner, uh partner people will do everything together, they will be their best best friends, uh, best friends of each other. Uh, they will have fun, they will have like emotional satisfaction and intellectual satisfaction, and of course, physical satisfaction, and all together and all the time for years to come. Some people don't actually need to be under this ideal picture or under this mount of expectations, and they need to figure out within marriage and within part partnership where are they on the scale and what do you they really want out of relationship and how much time do they need to be uh to be alone.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

Yeah, that's a really good point. I think too, like I for me personally, like being feeling stuck in a relationship or a marriage where I'm unhappy is like way worse than being alone. If I'm talking if like and I I don't know how common that is, but you know, just feeling like I can't get out of something or I'm tethered to someone and I don't want to be there.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Yeah, yeah. I yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And and this brings us to another another question. This is important. If you remember, I talked about a gap in happiness between married people and unmarried people. So we we have a lot a lot to talk about it, but uh part of this gap, and we estimate it to be around fair to half of the gap between between married people and and unmarried people in terms of happiness is not due to the status itself, it's not due to marriage or partnership, is actually due to society, and what people think that society thin of themselves. So, once again, uh what people think that others how others see them in terms of pettiness, in terms of stigma, uh in terms of maybe there's something wrong with them in terms of um their future and the risks, uh, they will need to deal with. Uh, and in this sense, the reflection of themselves in others' eyes can lower their emotional well-being.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

And I just feel like like listening to society with anything is just like a formula for unhappiness. Like, right? Like, like if you go on social media, like you're never good enough, you know, you know, oh, you have wrinkles, oh you have this or that, like it's you're too fat, you're not rich enough. I'm like, why can't we be strong enough just to tell society to like excuse my language, but like F off? Like, yeah, like have your own standards.

SPEAKER_04 35:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

We could teach people to do that. I think more people would be happier, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

Yeah, so in my book, uh, I talk about different strategies on how to do it. Uh, but if we will take the the major ones, one is to fight against society. Some people succeed in doing it and some people don't. Another, because it's not easy, it's really not easy. I see it in my interviews. I in the interviews I conduct I conducted, I see it all over. But another option is to choose not only so you have basically in in this context, you have two choices to make. One is to choose to be single, at least for the time being, and another one is to choose your surroundings, and you to choose what networks you weave yourself into.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

I think that makes a lot of sense. Sorry, can you hear the hammering on my fire escape? There's like literally a high in my in like my window, like coming joining me for morning coffee. I'm never alone. What you talk about happy older singles versus unhappy older singles, and I think that's really you know, when because people have, oh, we're getting older and that's scary, and yada yada. But like, what are some of the differences that that you've noticed in your research between happy older singles versus unhappy older single?

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Absolutely. So older happy older people kind of uh I characterize them in in in several ways, but I will mention just a few. First, happy older people planned carefully over time, how to age on themselves, not basic, not necessarily uh aging alone, but aging in uh in uh aging single, surrounded, well planned, part of a community, and and so on. Also in terms of financial financial needs, they planned around uh around their financial needs. So this is let's say the major vector of thinking ahead, thinking about the future. When they were younger, they thought about the future and they planned, they built their lives around it, and they came very prepared. The second major direction that I described in the book is to thinking back on their past. And what I what I saw in the interviews I conducted, that it really matters how you construct your narrative about how you came to be single. In unhappy singles, it was very common to see regret, to see bitterness about missing opportunities, or like that guy screwed me uh over whatever, he just left me alone, or whatever. And happy people, happy older people, actually, many of them really lived their life, a very complex life, and they had uh a lot in in their lives. Uh, like just one example, I had a a nun that really slept all over with men and women in the church, with uh outside of church, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

Very complex.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

Yes, I said a nun, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

Oh, I like a Catholic nun?

SPEAKER_01 39:03

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Yeah, all over the place.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay, like you know, like everyone else, people have complex the whole complexity around the around their history and about the uh around their narrative.

SPEAKER_03 39:19

Oh, but she was very lucky. She became a nun. Well, okay, wow, no, yeah. I went to Catholic school, so I'm like I'm picturing like these nuns, hardcore nuns that were like super strict.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Yeah, yeah. Some some you know, some people handle their lives uh in in in various ways and in various layers. He sure did. Uh let's say, yeah. But but the main point is that she looked back uh on her life on on her life, and she was very happy about it. She was very happy about the experiences, she was very happy about about moving from whatever from from people moving people around and and uh moving between people. And she was satisfied and she she wasn't bitter at all about being single at the moment. She felt and and and this is just one example. People, single people, happy older single people, look at their back, look at their history, and and say something like I learned a lot, I experienced a lot. This is currently this is another phase in my life, and this is another experience, and I love it. It's not about having this regret all over.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

Yeah, I think like the bitterness and the regret that that must be tough. Like if you get to a certain stage in life and that's what you have, that's miserable. Yeah, I I don't even know what to say about that. Do you think people this is a theory I have, but like I feel like people may not know how to be alone because they don't really get to know themselves or like and really love themselves, like, hey, I'm like such a cool creature, you know, on this weird planet, and like I'm awesome to kind of hang like, and then you sort of like entertain yourself, and like you can, I don't know, you feel like kind of confident to just show up by yourself and jump into anything. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

I absolutely, absolutely. I talk I talk about uh uh uh about it a lot. So basically, in the educational system, well, we hardly prepare students and and children how to be in a relationship, but sometimes we do, and it's wonderful, but rarely, rarely, really rarely, we talk with children and students about how to be single, how to be alone. And if we go even further and think about social workers and psychologists and therapists, just think about the the regular session. It's so common to talk about dating, about break breakups, about recovering from relationship, preparing yourself for relationships, and so on. Really, uh psychology in general is well infused with literature and knowledge about relationships before and after relationships and all the the conditions uh surround it. But if you talk about singlehood, rarely we find that uh psychologists or therapists uh just say to their patients, just hold a minute. I see you recovered from relationships, I see you. You want to enter relationships. In between, there is a space, and this space call is called singlehood. Let's talk about how to form a healthy singlehood, what that means for you, how you form uh meaningful relationships, long-lasting relationships uh with friends, relatives, surroundings, how you invest in something that you care about, how you find meaning in what you do, in your hobbies, in your leisure time, uh and so on. How you find really like meaningful and satisfied singlehood in your life.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

Yeah, and I actually I think that is such an important point. And I think you can be, and if you decide then to be in a relationship, it it's probably gonna be better. I don't know if you have research on that, but that's my yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so the other person's not like you're not like latching on to someone for your meaning, like you're meaning you're content and meaningful just as you are.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

Absolutely, absolutely. It sounds, it sounds like almost a cliche. Um Hallmark card.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

I realize that.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Yeah, yeah, but um, but it's funny, but um I got always uh already the um that uh whatever um Stigma, of course, uh, that people say once people start to talk about singlehood with Eliakin, they actually get into a relationship. And I have some uh yeah, yeah, I have some people that I consult to and and some people I walk with, and it it was it surprised me at the beginning. Uh, but over time it just like got like that rumor. People that walk with me about their singlehood get partnered very quickly. Uh it's it's funny, yes, but it it makes sense when you think about it.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

It makes sense, and then you lose the wait. So, wait, what are you are you a psychologist?

SPEAKER_01 44:42

I'm a counselor, I'm a counselor like on this, like on the on the side. Uh it's not it's some it's not something like I'm I'm focusing on, but uh yes.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

No, that's interesting to me. Okay, so like in and so people who are trying to manage their singlehood or whatever, they'll come to you.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:59

Like in just in Israel, or do you like do you tell me?

SPEAKER_01 45:02

In Israel, mostly mostly in Israel, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

Yeah, oh, very interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:08

Um so when you first started at this out, you had this, you're like, you know, what makes someone tick in singlehood and to where you are now. Like, were you surprised by what you found? Were you kind of like, were you pleasantly surprised? Or were you like, ah, yeah, I expected that?

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Maybe one major surprise was that single people can be very happy. There, there are ways to be happy in your singlehood, much more than we think. It's not it's not a rocket science, it's not something obscure that uh there is a secret, uh, really one secret on how to live your life. But statistically and evidence, uh, evidence-based, once you focus on on develop uh your surroundings, your social support system, uh planning ahead, thinking about your narrative relationship history, thinking about the scale that you really want to have a relationship in your life, thinking about your values, thinking about the meaning that you assign to to other things that you do in your life, and so on and so forth. Once you compile these whole aspects all together, it's actually like easy and and kind of rich in within reach to be a happy single, much more than we think, much more we we we got educated in in early life.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Do you get pushback or criticism for oh all the time?

SPEAKER_01 46:47

Oh, I want to hear what I hear it so absolutely. So so I will say there are two types. One type is that um the argument that I encourage people to be single, and this is this is really not true, even in my book six years ago, for sure not now, but but but even six years ago, when I wrote my book, I really carefully uh wrote in my book that it's not a competition, it's not about married, uh, the married life or the married or the partnered life versus the single life. It's more about if you are single, this is what you can do, this is how you can live your life to the fullest, and you can always choose to be single. That's one direction of or let's say uh backlash. Um the other one is that people really don't believe that single people per se, it's not about encouragement, but single it's about the findings. People don't believe that some single people actually are happier in their single life. Uh they always say, Oh, they just didn't have that experience, that they didn't have that ideal love, they didn't find find that their soulmate uh yet. And what I saw, and what what was surprising for me is that some people some people actually enjoy, really enjoy, and with what we know, they really like their lives as singles. And this brings me to another point, and which is very, very important. Happiness and loneliness are two subjective terms by definition. So, in terms of clinical terms, you are lonely not because you have only one friend or two friends, and other people have 10 friends, it's not about quantity, and uh even more, it's not about the objective life status or the objective situation in general. So it's not me, like experts and researchers, and and me included showed that what brings loneliness in is the subjective gap between what you desire to have and what you have in actual terms, and the gap is what correlates with dementia and and physical um illness and and and and lower emotional well-being, and so on and so forth. All the correlations and all everything that we uh that we know about loneliness is about subjective loneliness. So, this subjectivity gives us a whole pathway to understand what can be done. If it's subjective and not an objective goal, an objective aim to achieve, then we can first for ourselves, we can feel better if we choose to do so, and second, society and this I don't know, annoying aunt that uh asking in Thanksgiving dinner, uh, what's going on with you? And and what what are you going to do? And we are very close to these holidays, and I'm sure these questions will repeat themselves and will be asked all over. These people can choose uh to see and uh to see their their singles relatives and single friends as as they are, and actually accept them and embrace them as they are, not because it's an ideology to accept everyone, uh because it really helps, it will help them if they will feel that the subjective way of looking at them is changing.

SPEAKER_03 50:51

Yeah, no, that's a great point. Everything you just said there was so important, and I think too, um it's you know, it's people project so much, you know. Like if you see a person who's alone, like it it you can't even do like a self-test. You're like, oh man, that person is alone, they must be unhappy. We rarely go to wow, that person is like in embracing solitude and learning about themselves and experiencing life. Like, that's that's we don't many of us don't do that, but I think a lot of the oh, that single person is they're just lying, they're not really happy. That's just our projection onto them, you know.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

Yeah, yeah. And we made so many uh revolutions in how we see women hundred years ago, how we see other cultures and how we see ethnicities, um, in really understanding that there is a whole world in different groups in society. Yeah, um the one front that we somehow didn't get to, and this is half of the adult population in Western countries, half of the adult population's population are singles, uh either divorced, widowed, uh never married before marriage or whatever. Half of the population is single, and still we don't assign meaning and and full content and positive content within the single population, within their singles' life.

SPEAKER_03 52:26

Yeah. So what I know we're running out of time here, but um, what do you hope to like to accomplish with your work and your book? Like, what are like some take-home points that you're like, I want to see my book, my research, the work I'm doing now. I want to see these changes in society, or I think society would benefit from these changes.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

I guess number one question, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm working now on uh integrating the singlehood perspective into policy making. But even within policy making, the number one aspect that I want to see singlehood more pronounce is education, education in psychology or education in therapy. Uh, this will be highly, highly, highly important to equip single people with the tools, with the skill sets that they need uh in order to be happy singles.

SPEAKER_03 53:23

Do you think we'll see more happy singles or more unhappy singles?

SPEAKER_01 53:28

And this is a hunch, but I feel we become more accepting of singlehood, and therefore, and really this is the reason, causal like in causality terms, uh, that we will see uh more happy singles in the future.

SPEAKER_03 53:44

Well, that's positive. That's positive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you know, even if you're married for a long time and you lose your partner and then all of a sudden you find yourself single, like you like that's a tough spot to be in if you don't know what to do about it.

SPEAKER_04 53:57

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:59

Well, thank you, Professor. Where are you? Are you so you're teaching? Do you teach at the university?

SPEAKER_04 54:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Yeah, okay, very cool. Very cool. Um, it's this was great. And I'm gonna share for our listeners your book and the show notes and your website. Um, yeah. And if you start taking um, what is it? Tele, I don't know if it's telehealth, telecounseling, is that what it is? Like maybe people from all over who are like, hey, I need help with my singlehood. I don't mind it's not this is such good stuff, you know, because you're fighting like age-old, you know, opinions and views, and like sort of like we get programmed with this stuff, you know, and and you gotta like if you're programmed with something that makes you feel bad about yourself, assuming you're not like a serial killer and something like that. Like, I think it's good to try to eject that, you know, and um yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:54

And it's so hard to change uh to change its uh norms, but uh it's happening, it's actually very exciting to see. The the field is growing. Uh we have like a as I told you, as um, I'm I'm the head of the International Symbol Studies Association, it grows enormously every month. Uh, we have more scholars now, we have uh over 200 scholars uh from all over the world. There are conferences, suddenly, too many conferences, if you ask me, like in June and then July.

SPEAKER_03 55:24

And um, so it's like international, every like all people researching singlehood.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

Absolutely. So that's like I I know it's off of protocol, but uh in Europe they they they got um uh they already so the European Council uh research, the European Research Council uh just gave uh one group five million euros to to uh investigate uh singlehood, and that that was uh three, four years ago, and then another group got uh a year ago, uh another five million euros in Spain, so one in Belgium, one in Spain, in the US is very prominent. In New York, actually, I was in uh New York uh last month. Um, there was a huge conference about like called the non-marriage roundtable uh at the Cardoso, Cardoso University. Yeah, um, and in Canada there is uh uh a huge uh center. I got uh a cooperation and collaboration, uh a grant of hundreds of thousands of dollars with uh University of Massachusetts at uh at Detmouth. Yeah, so it's it's happening. That's very cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:31

Well, I think they'll probably be more of that because we have like the uh the epidemic of loneliness over here. I don't know if you guys have it over there.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would just tell you that it's it's a question if it's an epidemic. I know many people uh call it an epidemic, but it's a question if it's a bit it's it's if it's epidemic if and if if it's spreading like an epidemic. Not really, not really. Like the bottom line, I will I will tell you the answer the answer that the the bottom, no, it's not not really.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

We we like to compare things in the US to infectious disease to kind of like it.

SPEAKER_01 57:11

It sounds great, I know. Like the loneliness epidemic. Oh, what what a wonderful battle, but no, not really.

SPEAKER_03 57:18

That's hilarious. Um, so I think about that a lot because like with the epidemic of misinformation, you know, like it just gets inside your brain and that's it. And then you spread it to others, and it's all viral, and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Vibrant, getting vibrant, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:31

All right, thank you so much. It was a pleasure chatting with you. And um thanks, thanks for having me. Absolutely. Enjoy the rest of your day there in Jerusalem.

SPEAKER_04 57:40

All right, bye-bye.

SPEAKER_03 57:42

Bye. All right, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in for today's episode. Don't forget to subscribe and share. Share with your friends, especially the ones who are single and perhaps finding it hard. Maybe this will inspire them, give them hope. And please check out some of the other conversations and new sections being added to Causes or Cures. And thank you, as always, to those who help support the podcast and keep it independent. I appreciate you. I see you and I appreciate you. All right, and now it's time for the closing quote. This quote is from Warsaw Shire. My alone feels so good. I'll only have you if you are sweeter than my solitude. Love that. Love that. Figured it matched the episode. All right, that's it for now. Hope you tune in next time and goodbye for now.